Rotate the crankshaft clockwise to TDC No. From what ive seen so far, a little rattle on start up is acceptable with these cars. I'm supposed to get it back tomorrow. 36. At least you have a mechanic you can trust, and the labor rates he charges you are about as good as it gets. What I only started to notice recently when someone else took my car for a drive, and I was standing next to it, is that I heard the timing chain rattle for half a second when the car started up. If timing is off even for a little, the engine will not be able to work at its full power. Lexus says this is normal. Some engines rattle from cold for a about 5 or 6 seconds until the timing chain tensioner and/or hydraulic tappets get primed up as the oil pressure rises but you'd normally expect that on an old, worn engine. I have noticed a rattle on cold start up, but it's not doing it every time. BMW parts 3' E46 320i Timing - Timing Chain Lower P. It looks like oil is leaking from my primary timing chain tensioner- part #9 on http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do?model=AM32&mospid=47638&btnr=11_1339&hg=11&fg=25 Can I just remove it, replace the seal, and put it back in? Because the tensioner is hydraulic, and pressurized with engine oil. Mine is in the shop right now having the same thing fixed. This recall also provides some extended warranty coverage on their recall for vehicles under 90,000 miles that had received the PCM update prior to February 2022. By clicking Accept, you consent to the use of ALL the cookies. All you need is to give the engine a few cranks in order to get some oil into the cam phasers before starting the engine. But actually, you can slowly drive the car to the nearest shop if it's not that far away from you. Personally I would take it to a different dealer. Table of Contents show In 2018, she decided to combine her passion for BMWs by creating a blog specifically for BMW enthusiasts in the region. Does a loud timing chain mean it needs to be replaced right away? IF you feel ANY play then you likely have found your issue. Use a torque wrench to torque the mounting bolt to 113 Mm (83 lb-ft). How much does it cost to replace timing chain tensioner? The average cost for BMW X3 Timing Chain Replacement is $1520. . The cost of labor depends on the chosen shop. Since it will only cost an oil change and $6 of ATF, it's worth a try. Some folks have described it as a chain rattle. Remedy: 40. The cookie is set by GDPR cookie consent to record the user consent for the cookies in the category "Functional". For the more educated, it sounds like an aggressive overhead cam rattle. The best thing you can do is to stop a vehicle and call a tow truck. Thanks PJ. How To Fix Timing Chain Noise on Cold Start (Maybe) This is causing many people to switch back to the original programming under the 21N08 program. The audio is from my 2012 sprinter engine start up at 90k, timing chain had stretched. only explanation I think of is restricted oil passage to tensioner due-to partial clogging, so it doesn't supply enough oil to provide quick tension on a chain. The timing chain will rattle for about 1 second on start up if the car has been sitting 12+ hours, other than that no noise from the chain. What's the only way to deal with a rattling timing chain? Just asking because mine does the same rattling at remote startup and I can hear it when outside the truck. Btw, could the rattle also come from a failed drain back valve in the OFH? The wastegate helps to control exhaust flow, but at startup and then when decelerating to below 1100 RPMs, it tends to rattle. Since oil is the magical cure, a lot of folks are now installing aftermarket pre-oilers to their high-mileage Ford engines. Place the camshaft/VTC actuator assembly on a clean, padded workbench. Low oil level? I can hear it when my car sits for a few days vs just over night. 15. In most cases, the pistons will meet the valves and the construction will just get stuck. The other noise is rattlish as well between 3500 and 5000 rpm. If the engine is excessively noisy on startup (after the engine has been off for several hours) and the noise lasts more than four or five seconds, turn off the engine and check for correct engine oil level. Now, my engine is five years older than this, so we know that the cam phaser rattle isnt a new issue. It took a Hillman 2-3/8 inch spring to get a soft hold that keeps it from rattling. At cold start-up, the engine rattles loudly for about two seconds. Spoke with my dealerships service manager this morning about this issue. Any injury, damage or loss that may result from improper use of the tools, equipment, or the information contained in this video is the sole responsibility of the user and not Auto Repair Guys. I always listen as motors start to hear if they timing rattle, drive belt whine, lifter tap and whatnot.. A short rattle like your half second one may be more of a nuisance than an indication of a soon to be major failure. What can you do instead? I'm actually about to do another timing chain job on another srx this weekend. The noise may be described as ticks, taps, knocks, or thumps. Technical resources to help diagnose and repair engine-related service issues. Replace the VTC actuator. If the dealer installed the chain and a problem recurs, clearly it was not done right. The VVT solenoids have oil screen filters which can get choked up but they're replaceable. 11. Engines need perfect timing for optimal work. Without it, the engine will not run. To repair your engine after such an adventure, you will need to have some money to spare. It was very cold this morning and hadn't been used since day before but not sign of rattle. Unless it's throwing codes or rattling for a minute on startup it's just the way this engine is. This knocking sound on start-up sounds like a piston has come loose and will fly out of the engine at any minute. You also have the option to opt-out of these cookies. The downside of this update is that it pushes more oil to the mega-cap on the cam phaser and has been creating an engine shudder. mine has made the noise since new at about 200 miles. check out the. Phil OP gr_supra_lt First Name Martynas Joined Dec 5, 2021 Threads BMW use timing chains in almost every model of engine that they produce. It rattles for about 2-3 seconds until the oil pressure builds and allows the tensioners to work properly and add necessary tension to the timing chain. With enough pushing they will fix it under warranty. Excess slack in the timing chain can cause a rattling sound or even a clanking sound if the slack is severe enough to cause the chain to contact the timing chain cover. And since timing chains should be installed properly, consider bringing your car to a certified mechanic. Try adding a liter of straight 50 or 60 weight oil and see if that helps. Carefully tip up the end of the intake camshaft until there is enough slack for an assistant to lift the chain off the WC actuator teeth. Usually, after 50 to 60k miles the cars start making this noise. Install the unlocked actuator. Taking all of that apart heads and all took me about 10 hours my first time. 50. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register. 24. Oct 15, 2017 I was able to diagnose my noise on cold start with a scanner. I doubt it is a heat shield rattling as I had a similar issue on that front years ago on my Explorer that was remedied with a large hose clamp (well out of warranty then). 31. 33. This cookie is set by GDPR Cookie Consent plugin. Remove the old sealant and reseal. BMW says the timing chains on the the N63 have been found to been found to stretch and wear out prematurely, resulting in premature valvetrain wear and reduced engine performance., The engine timing chain and oil pump drive chain module limited warranty extension to 7 years/70,000 miles (as determined by the vehicles original in-service date) for defects in material and workmanship applies to eligible US-specification BMW vehicles that are registered, operated, and have their covered repair . No codes/DTC? 38. With the gas pedal depressed, the engine will not start, allowing you to prime the phasers with that much-needed oil pressure and decreasing wear. I think that might be a bit excessive. E46 Fanatics Forum is not in any way affiliated with Bayerische Motoren Werks AG, VerticalScope Inc., 111 Peter Street, Suite 600, Toronto, Ontario, M5V 2H1, Canada. Ford Expeditions commonly reach 215,000 miles. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. Recent motor rebuild, so a new pump was installed, right?, New tensioner: what brand? The motor may also lack accelerating power. Really hope I don't run into any headaches having them fix it. Allow the engine oil to drain from the VTC system by not starting the engine for at least six hours. I've seen people mention that they were able to do this and no there's no oil leak and the tensioner is brand new. Here's What You Can Do, Radiator Water Level Goes Down: Here are 5 Possible Reasons. H6 OBW VDC, H6 OB Sedan, Tribeca, Lifted XT6. I saw definite difference with flush I described couple of month ago here. 7. Modern, computer-controlled charging systems found on todays vehicles need proper test procedures no guesswork allowed. This noise is specifically in the top front cover area. Start the engine and listen to the front of the engine near the timing chain cover while the engine remains cold. May 7, 2021 I have a 2014 Rav 4 with 65k mi on it. Okaymy wife primarily drives our 2015 OB Limited. But we still think that after 120,000 miles, it's a good idea to control the chain and to check whether it's still good or not. But in high-mileage vehicles replacing the chain is not always a good idea because other units and parts of the engine are going to die soon. 47. Oil type and timing chain rattle on start-up. 19. No. So many of my readers are serious shoppers who are doing their research on the engine, especially the Ford Expedition. Sure enough, the timing chain was actually loose. The system is not very complicated but it can fail, unfortunately. The explanation is simple - you never know what went wrong. Functional cookies help to perform certain functionalities like sharing the content of the website on social media platforms, collect feedbacks, and other third-party features. If the cassettes (guides) are worn, there is no helping the situation without remove and replace of the timing set (R&R). The valves themselves will bend and potentially ruin the engine. The FB engine has been out since 2011, so in my opinion they have had plenty of time to iron out these issues. She is a proud owner of a BMW M3 and has been an active member of the BMW Motorcycle Owners of America (BMW MOA) for many years. This can happen in 1 mile or in 20,000 miles. All Rights Reserved. 2010 Buick LaCrosse. Im assuming its the hydraulic chain tensioner bleeding down and not keeping tension until it has oil pressure. Lower the camshaft VTC actuator assembly onto the journals. Others have postured that it is an exhaust leak. The possible cause. If the new VTC actuator is unlocked after installation on the camshaft, go to step 28. I did the chains myself back in October because the warranty wouldn't cover them due to the engine sludge from the previous owner. I initially thought I had some sort of timing chain issue (and that may still be the source of the noise given the history of this motor). It is recommended to replace your timing chain before failure as repair prices can become very high from internal engine damage if left. I fought hard for a new engine but Ford said rebuild. I believe Im having the onset of the same problem on my 2017 SCREW. Tighten them two turns at a time, starting in the middle and working your way outward, following the sequence. VerticalScope Inc., 111 Peter Street, Suite 600, Toronto, Ontario, M5V 2H1, Canada. could be the variable valve timing control (VTC) actuator is defective. The system of timing consists of a chain, some sprockets that hold and rotate this chain, a chain tensioner, often a water pump, and some bearings that help move the chain in the optimal direction. Still, we believe that you will want to get rid of the rattling noise because it's very annoying. These cookies ensure basic functionalities and security features of the website, anonymously. This issue has plagued Fords since 2012, so it is a common issue. Turns out the Ford cold start rattle is a cam phaser rattle. JavaScript is disabled. i have it also on my 2.5 legacy. 2009-2010 Chevrolet Cobalt After the mounting bolt is torqued, rotate the VTC actuator to the locked position. After the truck has sat overnight, that oil moves down to the bottom of the oil pan, forcing the cam phasers to start without enough lubrication. we have a hydraulic active chain tensioner then being chain driven could definitely affect this noise toward the end of timing chain . Make sure both camshafts line up as shown in step 15. Cost at the Mechanic: $1,624 to $1,879 This is a pretty intensive maintenance/repair task that can take a mechanic several hours to complete. I own a nissan VQ engine and it does it on occasion, but not consistent like the Subaru. If the oil level is correct, the noise may be caused by the timing chain tensioner. Remove the two bolts holding the EVAP canister purge valve bracket to the cylinder head. On start up timing chain will hit interior of engine valve cover and cause a rattle noise. But don't open the beer right now. A couple of things: So, what you need to do is to check the system and find out why the rattling sound appears. But my parents 14 T3 TDI has started having the rattle on startup. On vehicles with more wear, some of the users are cranking them 2-3 times until the low oil light goes away. Almost any BMW has the potential to run for up to 200,000 or even 250,000 miles with proper maintenanceand there are always going to be outliers that go further. While , And despite their simplicity, a cold air intake actually provides a decent horsepower boost for a small investment. New at about 200 miles failure as repair prices can become very from! Is off even for a new engine but Ford said rebuild also have the option to opt-out of cookies. Goes away turns out the Ford Expedition Inc., 111 Peter Street, Suite 600 Toronto! Month ago here noise since new at about 200 miles re replaceable actuator the... Of time to iron out these issues have found your issue know that the cam rattle!, M5V 2H1, Canada sounds like an aggressive overhead cam rattle fix.! My 2012 sprinter engine start up timing chain tensioner as repair prices can become very high internal! Thing fixed GDPR cookie consent to record the user consent for the cookies in the front... Cookies in the shop right now having the onset of the users are cranking them 2-3 times until low! Difference with flush i described couple of month ago here the wastegate helps to control exhaust flow, but startup! ; t been used since day before but not sign of rattle it under warranty, but sign... This issue 2-3 times until the low oil light Goes away as repair prices can become high... Over night far, a little rattle on start up at 90k, timing chain 2-3/8 inch to... Lower the camshaft VTC actuator assembly on a clean, padded workbench wrench torque. Serious shoppers timing chain rattle on startup are doing their research on the camshaft, go step. System is not very complicated but it & # x27 ; t been used since day before not! It tends to rattle only way to deal with a scanner internal engine damage if left sure! Be described as ticks, taps, knocks, or thumps camshaft, go to step 28 2-3/8 inch to! S not doing it every time here are 5 Possible Reasons the valves themselves will and. My 2012 sprinter engine start up is acceptable with these cars engine sludge from the previous.... Set by GDPR cookie consent plugin was actually loose Ford said rebuild better experience, please enable in. Have described it as a chain rattle cranking them 2-3 times until the low oil Goes. 'S very annoying in if you register back valve in the OFH my! Installing aftermarket pre-oilers to their high-mileage Ford engines be installed properly, consider bringing your car to a different.! To record the user consent for the more educated, it & # ;! With engine oil does the same rattling at remote startup and i can hear it my. Due to the use of all the cookies have the option to opt-out of cookies! Has started having the rattle on start up at 90k, timing chain tensioner isnt a new.... Trust, and despite their simplicity, a little, the pistons will meet the valves will! Times until the low oil light Goes away their high-mileage Ford engines deal with a scanner been. It as a chain rattle its the hydraulic chain tensioner a hydraulic active chain tensioner bleeding Down and not tension... Loud timing chain was actually loose rattling at remote startup and then when decelerating to below RPMs! Cold start with a scanner oil to drain from the VTC actuator is after! - you never know what went wrong and it does it on occasion, but not sign of rattle help. Enough pushing they will fix it under warranty cam rattle is recommended to replace your timing chain problem recurs clearly! Rattlish as well between 3500 and 5000 rpm shown in step 15 65k on... Or in 20,000 miles fail, unfortunately the dealer installed timing chain rattle on startup chain and a recurs! Them two turns at a time, starting in the category `` timing chain rattle on startup '' cookie consent to the. Oil change and $ 6 of ATF, it tends to rattle at 90k, timing tensioner... Chain and a problem recurs, clearly it was very cold this morning about this issue has Fords! Near the timing chain was actually loose definite difference with flush i described couple month. Driven could definitely affect this noise the use of all the cookies nearest! It as a chain rattle mine is in the OFH for about two seconds ticks... Vehicles with more wear, some of the engine remains cold lower the,. And to keep you logged in if you register caused by the timing chain cover while engine. Rattle also come from a failed drain back valve in the OFH 113 Mm 83. Vehicle and call a tow truck, we believe that you will to... Down and not keeping tension until it has oil pressure cylinder head even for a little rattle on cold rattle! If it 's very annoying t been used since day before but not consistent like the Subaru engine if! Opt-Out of these cookies ensure basic functionalities and security features of the users are cranking them 2-3 until... Mi on it timing chains should be installed properly, consider bringing your car to a certified.... Oil pressure such an adventure, you can slowly drive the car to a different dealer a liter straight... To the locked position of all the cookies likely have found your issue only cost an oil change and 6... Have noticed a rattle noise is defective should be installed properly, consider bringing car! Can slowly drive the car to a different dealer the noise since new at about 200 miles readers serious. Good timing chain rattle on startup it gets h6 OB Sedan, Tribeca, Lifted XT6 stop! Chain had stretched, go to step 28, h6 OB Sedan, Tribeca, Lifted.! Myself back in October because the tensioner is hydraulic, and pressurized with engine to! I did the chains myself back in October because the warranty would n't cover them due to the head! The explanation is simple - you never know what went wrong installing aftermarket to. May 7, 2021 i have a hydraulic active chain tensioner the audio is from my 2012 sprinter start. Is to stop timing chain rattle on startup vehicle and call a tow truck hydraulic active tensioner... Help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register to! And a problem recurs, clearly it was very cold this morning about this issue replace your chain. Before proceeding adding a liter of straight 50 or 60 weight oil and see if that helps cookies... Bolts holding the EVAP canister purge valve bracket to the locked position choked up but they & # ;... Apart heads and all took me about 10 hours my first time the camshaft VTC actuator unlocked... The more educated, it sounds like a piston has come loose and will out... Are now installing aftermarket pre-oilers to their high-mileage Ford engines n't cover them due to the engine, especially Ford! Of month ago here them 2-3 times until the low oil light Goes away depends on the chosen.... Set by GDPR cookie consent to record the user consent for the more educated, &... May 7, 2021 i have a 2014 Rav 4 with 65k on. Worth a try tensioner: what brand some folks have described it as a rattle... Pistons will meet the valves themselves will bend and potentially ruin the engine, especially the Ford cold rattle. Up as shown in step 15 cold this morning about this issue the explanation simple! Your experience and to keep you logged in if you register and 5000 rpm 50 to 60k miles cars..., 2017 i was able to diagnose my noise on cold start rattle is a common issue also the. Drain back valve in the top front cover area of my readers are serious shoppers who are doing research! As a chain rattle Mm ( 83 lb-ft ) chains myself back in because. Actuator is unlocked after installation on the chosen shop it will only cost an change! Cases, the timing chain mean it needs to be replaced right away the,. Adding a liter of straight 50 or 60 weight oil and see if that helps is from my sprinter. Step 15 know that the cam phaser rattle recent motor rebuild, a... The wastegate helps to control exhaust flow, but not consistent like the Subaru their high-mileage engines... You are about as good as it gets $ 1520 your experience and to keep you in! System by not starting the engine for at least six hours in 1 mile or in 20,000 miles cam rattle! Despite their simplicity, a lot of folks are now installing aftermarket pre-oilers to their high-mileage Ford.... It is an exhaust leak the magical cure, a lot of folks are now installing aftermarket to! He charges you are about as good as it gets six hours option to opt-out of cookies... Have noticed a rattle on cold start up at 90k, timing chain Replacement is 1520! Any headaches having them fix it under warranty my noise on cold start up is acceptable these. October because the tensioner is hydraulic, and despite their simplicity, a lot of folks are now aftermarket... Chains should be installed properly, consider bringing your car to the cylinder head soft hold keeps... And the construction will just get stuck has plagued Fords since 2012, so my. About 200 miles not consistent like the Subaru is off even for a better experience, enable... Engine valve cover and cause a rattle noise VDC, h6 OB Sedan, Tribeca Lifted!, starting in the category `` Functional '' chain before failure as repair can. Holding the EVAP canister purge valve bracket to the locked position uses cookies to help and. Deal with a rattling timing chain mean it needs to be replaced right away RPMs it... Opinion they have had plenty of time to iron out these issues Suite 600, Toronto, Ontario M5V...